This is an interesting topic from a clinical perspective. Since exogenous T is being continuously supplied to replace a chronic deficit in endogenous T production, there will never be a low-T state. Furthermore, TRT itself causes gonadotropin axis suppression, which is typically corrected with hCG to prevent testicular atrophy, since hCG is an LH analogue.

Thus, it really isn't clear to me what there is to "recover" after a cycle for guys on TRT. This is not to say that PCT in this situation can be ignored, but there has to be a physiological basis for that determination.

Thoughts?

- Dan

Guys on TRT dont need PCT. Was that your question?

-Eric

Do they need to do anything at all? Or can they just cycle indefinitely? The only exception I can see would be to take breaks in between methyls to let your liver recover...

Guys on TRT may not need PCT, but they do need HCG, if they want to keep their testes working near normal.

Hi, I am that guy. Well maybe I am on a high TRT, I am using 300-400mg Testosterone per week. I am going to stop in 8 weeks, conduct PCT and do bloodwork and evaluate everything.

I took orals once and pct was a disaster that left me with no test for the rest of the year.

I have read HCG unraveled and according to that I should have been using HCG way back when I started.

Any advice is welcome.

I am 46, started 400mg test + 400 mg deca for 8 weeks, switched to high TRT and have been using 2 IU per day of HGH.

I am inclined to get back on TRT after my evaluation period because it suppresses immune killer T-cells which in my case with Ulcerative Colitis is a good thing. I was down to 130 lbs with a foot in the grave at the hospital and am now 190. I use no meds at all to combat UC but feel TRT has a place in my arsenal.

Thanks!

I don't know if it is as simple as that, since it is possible that the testes are endogenously supplying a non-trivial percentage of the body's total T even when on TRT. I would think it depends on the amount of HTPA suppression the TRT is causing, i.e. what the LH level of the guy on TRT is.

- Dan

I'm on Testim, and while it's good, I don't believe it is as potent as injected testosterone. So, maybe PP's PCT stack is a good thing for me? I'm trying it anyway (Sustain Alpha + Toco 8 + Endoamp). I haven't done blood work so I don't know fact, but I do feel good over all.

At 300 mg testosterone per week would I be considered HRT or AAS cycle ? How do I do PCT in 8 weeks if I have not been taking HCG but am told to only use it for PCT ?

Thanks

I'm confused by your questioning. You don't know if you're on TRT or running a AAS cycle? I don't get it... are you self-medicating? If you're on 400mg a week, and running deca you're on cycle and not TRT. The guys that are on TRT do 80-150 mg. a week.

OK, 46 years old. Got HGH for neck degeneration from MRI report. Got it thru anti-aging doctors after lots of blood work. I was told testosterone and deca may help my ulcerative colitis so I took the plunge. I was using 200mg testosterone and 100 mg of deca but experimented with doubling that. Then it came time to end the AAS cycle. I said I wanted to remain on TRT and he said ok 200 mg per week, I said I would rather have 300 mg per week.

So it started out as a quick AAS cycle and morphed into TRT.

If I want to exit TRT in 8 weeks what would my PCT look like ?

In hindsight it looks like I have made some bad decisions, should have halted and done PCT after the holidays. I am completely new to this so spending the time now to figure out the best way out and hopefully re-enter much wiser.

I also spoke to another clinic for my girlfriend and asked them what they thought TRT should be and they said 300mg per week.

TRT is Testosterone Replacement Therapy which is used for guys who have abnormally low T-levels, typically due to andropause. TRT isn't cycled; it is used continuously for the rest of the patient's life, because the goal is to replace the T that the body is not generating enough of on its own..

- Dan

I was in the 200's so it seemed I qualified.

I was about 300 a few years ago. I used Gaspari's Novadex XT and my total T went up to 900+ but my E2 crashed. I tried other things, but my doctor finally offered to put me on Testim, so I went for it. I can't afford to do a lot of blood work, so right now I'm just going by how I feel. I have been trying PP's PCT stack, which seems to help me feel better, but Dermacrine seems to help even more. So, what I realized is that regardless of what's right or wrong about which products to use while on TRT, Sustain Alpha is mostly resveratrol, which is the current darling of the life extension movement. Dermacrine is mostly DHEA, which is just plain good for us too. So, I don't think it matters much which one we take.

Well I dont feel anything anymore. I dont feel the HGH, I dont really feel the test. I feel strong when I workout. Part of the problem is the extreme work hours, I am up passed midnight every night and billing 60-70 hours per week, I have money for things but nothing seems to work. I stopped Arimidex because I was bloating anyway and felt I might be suppressing too much estrogen. I feel I need to either take a week off from work and rest or exit thru PCT and startover after a while. The numb arms while sleeping is back which is wrecking the chances I have for sleep, not sure why this is happening it even happened sleeping on my back.

It looks to me like you need to talk with you doctor and come clean about all your decisions.

Let your doctor tell you what you need to do to stop TRT and ask the doctor what you need to do about PCT.
IMO your problems need to be addressed by a medical professional, not by asking what PCT will work best on this forum.

He said to stop in 8 weeks and take the HCG for about 2 weeks. This site prescribes taking HCG all along the way which I did not do. Everywhere I see people talking about taking clomid and all kinds of things yet he is only telling me to take HCG for PCT.

My 'doctor' has been a part of every decision but I have a history of not blindly following them for example I stopped all medication for Ulcerative Colitis and have devised my own treatment regime and am doing fine, far better than the people on immunossupprisive drugs.

This is also a grey area, I do not 'see' a doctor exactly, this is 'anti-aging' medicine so somewhere a Dr. signs off on it so that it is perfectly legal.

I do not see anyone saying HCG alone after a long cycle that included no HCG is the way to go.

Please explain the section in bold print, I don't understand.

The numb arms while sleeping is back….sounds like carpal tunnel symptoms in their infant stage. You’d be surprised at how fast you can find relieve while sleeping by using a good set of carpal tunnel braces. I’ve been dealing with the same thing for years. Running a hydraulic chipping gun busting cement for 40 hours a week for 2-3 months solid is what brought mine on years ago. My arms would be asleep (needles and pins) 10 minutes after hitting the road heading home. Laying down 10 minutes into sleep it would go from numbness, needles and pins to fire. Sorry to veer off your main topic but I thought I’d throw in my 2 cents worth.

Yes I was diagnosed with carpal tunnel using the electric conduction method years ago and they said I had to have surgery. I resovled it myself and never had surgery. I work 70 hours per week at the computer using ergo keyboards, however the 3-5 months of HGH brought it back. I have stopped the HGH. I bought the braces for the night. I need to do more cardio and more stretching all this lifting has me bound up. More hydration and eating cleaner.

I spent thousands with a local guy, 9 vials of blood but he did finally give me HGH and my C-2 and C-5 facet joints seem to have regenerated. Goal Accomplished.

He wanted me dropping hundreds on his line of supplements each month which I already have enough of that stuff so I contacted an anti-aging clinic over the web since there were many ripoff Doctors around Boulder colorado to my surprise.

I gave them the bloodwork and we got started, I never got used to needles all my life but the testosterone does help my Uclerative Colitis. My girlfriend contacted another one over the web and I talked to them and inquired about TRT and they said 300mg per week.

I found this which outlines my situation: I am no longer on the upswing accelerating and probably need to restart lower but with HCG ongoing, however I will take the break and see if I can produce normal amounts now that I dont drink anymore. Post divorce drinking may have crushed my testes temporarily.

"Many TRT practitioners add in HCG for a short course every few months, to re-stimulate the testes. My opinion is that it is far better to keep them up to form and function all along the way. The physicians who intermittently use HCG also use it as a “break” in TRT, much the same way hormonally-supplemented athletes manage the typical anabolic steroid cycle. TRT should not be “cycled”. Once I get my patients properly tuned up, I want them to stay that way. They also erroneously believe this allows the HPTA to recover, when it clearly does not. The HCG-induced testosterone production is every bit as suppressive of the HPTA as the TRT, and the supplemented testosterone is still at suppressive serum levels during that time, anyway."

According to that my chances of jump starting and getting my HPTA going again are not very good.

All Things Male - Center for Men's Health