also, i do understand the risks, which is why i have come up with this plan. it covers everything from, lethargy, gyno, joint care, heart care and so on. i understand i am only 19 and this is the main reason a lot of people on here dont think i should do SD, but if a 25 year old guy showed you that plan you would say yeah looks good. i have made the mistake of saying 5 weeks, i only meant 4, weeks, 3-6 i will be on SD, and i was considering week one only running 0.5ml twice daily. cant you put the fact that i am 19 to the side and look at my plan to give constructive criticism. i am 19, and i am serious about doing this cycle. so rather then suggesting otherwise i would appreciate feedback on my cycle plan. thanks, im sorry if i have upset any members. i have done more research then you think, and have put a lot of thought into this. surely you can see from my cycle plan that i have done plenty of research. i have been keeping a gym and food diary also. i am training hard and looking forward to getting on this cycle next week. thanks again.

In previous posts u sound like u lack the dedication to keep going. Some others have pointed this out.
I believe in a thing called post cycle depression. Where after a cycle one gets depressed after losing that "on" feeling. It can be hell on people and cause people to lose the gains they just worked so hard to achieve. If training natty is a chore for u now wait till ur test production is in the toilet.

^^^What he said.

Sustain doesn't block estrogen; it is more like an estrogen "regulator". Also, PP has never marketed Sustain as a treatment for gyno or gyno symptoms. Really, on an SD cycle, all the Sustain will be doing is decreasing the severe lethargy and trying to maintain your libido and make the rapid SD shutdown a bit less severe.

Oh wait, you were only going to run it during PCT right (most would run a second bottle of SA while on SD for the lethargy and shutdown mitigation)? Well, prepare for severe lethargy. And even if Sustain did treat and prevent gyno symptoms, did you know...that you can develop gyno symptoms on cycle and AFTER PCT? What then? More Sustain? Give me a break and take my advice; go read some more. You just don't know WTF you are doing and I don't have time to conjure up all that information for you so that you can osmosize it in one day and get on with your cycle. There are numerous threads on here and elsewhere that cover the pieces missing from your puzzle.

Do you even have a BP monitor? You'll have to titrate the hawthorne dosing to keep your greatly increased BP suppressed but not too surpressed which could be equally or more dangerous.

I didn't really comment on your "plan" b/c it is full of holes and you clearly lack the knowledge necessary to run this compound. You told us what a multivitamin does for phuck's sake; I can read that on BB.com's product listing page, but I already know what a multivitamin does.

But at a higher level, this compound simply isn't appropriate for your first time cycle, be you 19 or be you 29. I don't know how much clearer I can be than that. I know you just bought and received your new toy (the SD stack), but it is still worth putting aside for a while if you want to do things right. If you are intent on jumping into the world of steroids (SD is an AAS, and among the strongest orals in existence, legal or illegal), I still encourage you to start with something that is much more forgiving than superdrol (damn near every other compound to some degree). As for what to start with, if anything hormonal, ideas have already been proffered earlier in this thread.

Also, don't just take our word for SD not being appropriate for you at this point. The label on a bottle of CEL M-Drol says something like "Due to the strength of this compound, it is not appropriate for a first-time pro-anabolic cycle".

Nor do we personally recommend it as such.

How would you compare the liver toxicity in the compound you compared to rat poison (M1T/Tren Bomb), to the toxicity found in Superdrol.

The education article already lists SD as a level "5" toxicity which is max, so what is this other compound like?

No worse than superdrol or any other of the dimethyls IMO at equivalent doses (it should be less toxic at equivalent doses due it it's single methylation); how much less toxic is anyone's guess. BTW, that is just one set of bloodwork and the person seems to have had an underlying liver "sensitivity" to 17aa steroids, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Some ppl had very bad experiences with M1T back in the day much like ppl sometimes have very bad experiences with Superdrol today. 3 cycles of M1T didn't do me any persistent bodily harm, but YMMV. They are both harsh substances. I'd probably rate M1T a +3 to +4 on the liver relative to superdrol's +5.

Would the liver toxicity of Superdrone be comparable to that of Accutane?

That is an apples and oranges comparison, and accutane wouldn't be nearly as harsh on the liver, though Accutane can certainly cause liver toxicity and a bad lipid profile and regular bloodwork is needed if using (and I presume Accutane is typically used for longer than 2-4 weeks at a time, but that's just a guess).

How much will liver juice really do for your liver on a SD cycle? I'm not questioning wether or not to take it but im just curiouse how much protection it will give your liver with a compund like SD?

helps normal function. i have seen great blood work from milk thistle and nac

Ordered 2 bottles of SD and also a bottle of Liver Juice.

I'm already on week 3 of SD, 10mg x 3 per day (30mg total). Very moderate strength gains. No weight gain although I am exchanging some fat for muscle. Minimal water retention only noticeable once in a while in face (generally morning and dissapates by end of day). A couple pimples on back but I sometimes get that regardless of whether I'm on a PH (oily skin to begin with). Blood pressure only slightly elevated although still within normal range for me. Only true side effect I notice is lethargy, but not a biggie.

I was hoping for a bit more results due to the 'LV' technology, even though I've never had great experience with PH's in the past (with respect to gains).

Some stats to ground you: 32/m, 5' 9", 185lbs, <10% BF. Weight training for over 13 years. 3,500+ calories/day, 300+ gms protein. I eat very healthy and consume an army of vitamins, minerals, fish oils and anti-oxidants each day. Complete ~4 aggressive workouts per week. Experience with just about every supplement, PH, AS out there. Overall, I'd consider myself a non-responder to the majority of supplements and PH's. The same pattern occurs every time...body notices change within a week, strength gain, some weight volatility, and then my body seems to recognize the 'intruder' and normalizes the environment back to near homeostasis. I'm like the 'exception'. Very annoying if you ask me.

I'll continue to run the course for another week (total 4 week cycle) and then will pull the plug. Hopefully some of you will have better luck. Again, my body doesn't react like most people so don't allow my experience to dissuade yours. Cheers.

Sounds like Unreal over at AM. He can pin a gram of test of week and literally gain nothing. Even early on in his "career", lower doses such as 250mg/week had essentially no effect on him. And his diet and training are definitely right. I think the last log of his I saw was Superdrol, Masteron, and Sustanon, and even at 1.5+ grams of gear a week, no stellar weight gains or anything. Just muscle hardening and increased definition. Of course he already weighs 230lbs (6'1) and is less than 10% BF, but still...

It sounds like you would have to venture into the land of generally unsafe AAS stacks (like 2 high dose injects + 1 potent oral) to get any results.

Or...one could try one of the more bizarre stacks like starting with the least potent AR-affinity AAS for 3 weeks, then bridging to the next one, and finishing with a strong one like trenbolone (so maybe primo-->eq-->test-->deca-->tren or similar and run proviron the whole time). Or vice versa on the order (strongest to weakest). Maybe it would be possible to trick the body into not re-achieving homeostasis so quickly. Of course, this is hypothetical info, not a recommendation to use AAS. Steroids are bad.

ive heard of people like that too that just didnt get results with any kind of PH. i even had a friend that took the 1-t tren stack and only put on like 5lbs. i put on about 22lbs and im a pretty big dude already so i couldnt believe he didnt get that much results. you could try some test and see how that goes. just make sure your careful and look into what your about to do if you decide to. dont just take advice from some big dude at the gym. the book of anabolic pharmacology on here is really good and gives good cycle info for length and dosing. seems like most people use way to much. good luck to ya

I was curious how long do I need to recover from my 1-T 10 wk cycle before I start my SD? I have read 10 wks on 10 wks off before the next cycle. I didn't know if I needed to wait that long.

Yep, if you where on cycle you need to wait that amount of time. Most will tell you that does not include the PCT time. If PCT time is 10 weeks, usually another 10 weeks is necessary, that way your body has time to get back to normal.

(but as everyone knows only you know your body and will probly start the cycle when you get ready)

robert

time on + pct = time off

my rule of thumb is....
*cycle = 6wks
*pct = 4wks
*time off "after" pct = an additional 10wks - this is very true for harsh methylated cycles

completely agree.

I'm looking to double check my bulking workout overall while cycling 1-T and SD. I know it's different from not using these product in reference to recovery and intensity. I'm in the middle of my 1-T cycle and will start my SD cycle some time in late June. If someone has web link to refere me to that's fine also.

ITS ALL GONE FELLAS..THIS IS A SAD DAY FOR THE NATION OF BODYBUILDING. I WILL POUR OUT LIQUOR


PS. I DID GET 10 BOTTLES THO